tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post9080658738204392144..comments2024-03-27T08:44:27.438+05:00Comments on Aeronaut: The Gujarat Beechcraft Incident - 1965 WarKaiser Tufailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05733145033238064933noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-61330728600499137082020-04-08T20:11:20.788+05:002020-04-08T20:11:20.788+05:00for all those who are of the opinion that Qais sho...for all those who are of the opinion that Qais should had let that beechcraft go away due to the quiet nature of war at Bhuj front or due to interception taking at so far away from actual action . . which at that time was in the north between kasur to wagah to chawinda to sialkot . . must remember following . . . . <br /><br />it was on the same day, i.e 19th Sep, 1965 or a day afterwards, as I don t remember the correct date . . that the IAF launched a large raid in this Bhuj front involving between 6 to 8 aircrafts including canberra bombers escorted by hunters on escort as well as in fighter bomber role . . target was the PAF radar station at Badin, where IAF was able to destroy a radar and inflicting damage on another . . there were a dozen casualties including death and injuries both . . father of one of my platoonmate was a PAF ground crew at that time and witness to the raid . . <br /><br />IAF was planning for this raid since 13th Sep, 1965 . . and has launched a number of recce flights in this regard . . appearance of the beechcraft in this new scenario changes the whole equation . . <br /><br />hypothetically, had a pakistani civilian aircraft appeared around the pathankot base on the morning of 06th Sep, 1965 . . what had been the IAF reaction ??? . . Iftikhar Hasan Faridyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08562278420016854870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-48655465797226545512018-05-18T09:14:45.957+05:002018-05-18T09:14:45.957+05:00Abhi...thank you for appreciating the authors '...Abhi...thank you for appreciating the authors 'writing prowess' though I can assure you, that the skills have not been used to obfuscate anything.<br /><br />I must confess that I did not read the above comment by 'Unknown' till now. I have no problem replying.<br /><br />Points 1 & 2: While the Beechcraft and the Boxcar are grossly different in shape and design, the pilot had no clue what the Beechcraft actually was. He straightforwardly called out the salient features, which is what any pilot would do if he did not know the aircraft type: "It is a twin-engined, twin-tailed aircraft….with four side windows, probably an eight-seater". Now the air defence controllers sitting in the ops room looked up the aircraft recognition chart in which the C-119 Boxcar EXACTLY met the description called out by Qais. So it was genuine a case of mistaken identity, something which the late Air Cdre Moiz Shahzada told me personally. (He was the OC Ops Wing at Badin at that time).<br /><br />Points 3 & 4: My reply to Points 1 & 2 also suffices for Points 3 & 4. <br /><br />At the end of this reply, I must make it clear that the only purpose of writing about this little known incident was to come out with what actually happened. I discussed it with Qais in detail, and he was of the opinion that nothing should be hidden, and that he would be a satisfied man if the truth came out clearly and the aggrieved families could get some closure. THAT was the only purpose of this write up, and not to "maul the truth or at least put a cloak of morality over it".Kaiser Tufailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05733145033238064933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-47526430297380613582018-05-16T10:48:56.353+05:002018-05-16T10:48:56.353+05:00Sir, You will get no reply, Air Cdr has been utili...Sir, You will get no reply, Air Cdr has been utilising his writing prowess to maul truth or atleast put a cloak of morality over itAbhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363280995754039390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-22343499379023988392017-12-21T23:05:32.269+05:002017-12-21T23:05:32.269+05:00A few observations:-
1. It was war, the Sabre was ...A few observations:-<br />1. It was war, the Sabre was authorized by GCA to shoot down a bogey is correct and fine,however aircraft recognition on part of the PAF pilot is open to question.<br />2. How can a civil registered Beech be mistaken for a Packet,if at all it was?The Bhuj front at this point of time was quiet after the Kutch incident and there was no action taking place either on ground or in the air .<br />3. The shooting down happened well within visual range as it was done with front guns which i assume is .50 cal as fitted on standard F-86 Sabres and not at BVR ranges with missiles.There was no pressure of combat nor was the hostile aircraft carrying out evasive manouveres.Thus Quais would have had all the time in the world to have a good look at his target and then simply sit behind it and open fire with his front guns.A duck shoot.<br />4. I am sorry but as an experienced military aviator i simply cannot digest the story that it was a case of mistaken identity.The story is as flimsy as Sqn Ldr Brij Pal Singh Sikand landing at Pasrur and handing over his Gnat on a platter ,claiming he was "disoriented" and low on fuel after an air combat over Chambb.In both cases i feel the pilots are well below the mark - one for aircraft recognition and the other for orientation both issues which are the bread and butter for military pilots in general and fighter pilots in particular.In both cases the hard truth lies somewhere in between what is being said.<br />5. I would appreciate some replies to my analysis on this issue.<br /> Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12244747590133738216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-92006558045742233652015-01-22T16:31:54.154+05:002015-01-22T16:31:54.154+05:00The summary of the Indian Government's record ...The summary of the Indian Government's record for this incident can be seen here: http://www.dgca.nic.in/aircraft/acc-ind.htm<br />Go to 1965 and see the record for the incident on 19/09/1965Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-26768056542528410692011-09-04T10:57:17.125+05:002011-09-04T10:57:17.125+05:00Great Sir,
At least tell those politicia...Great Sir,<br /> At least tell those politicians to stop bickering about and causing more harm than what it has caused to the partitioned India and Pakistan. Now Religious sentiment have grown bigger than needs to be culled or else we loose much more than lost in the past. Lets live in peace and harmony as God created us to live. Sebastian PP.Sebsonikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04563665660580449074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-44268638086532343632011-08-29T08:53:13.357+05:002011-08-29T08:53:13.357+05:00Ishfaq, go ahead.Ishfaq, go ahead.Kaiserhttp://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-25524285898569660382011-08-28T11:26:47.258+05:002011-08-28T11:26:47.258+05:00Dear Air Cdre Tufail,
I am trying to write an art...Dear Air Cdre Tufail,<br /><br />I am trying to write an article based on the 65 incident in the local newspaper. I shall quote you extensively, if you do not object. Please let me know. Salam and Eid Mubarak.Ishfaqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-15613931998626248982011-08-21T11:27:51.923+05:002011-08-21T11:27:51.923+05:00Dear Air Commodore Tufail,
When this news reached...Dear Air Commodore Tufail,<br /><br />When this news reached us in India, about Flg. Officer (Retd) Hussain writing to Ms. Singh, most of us were full of admiration, at what I believe is courage, to reach out, seek forgiveness, and to be forgive.<br />Based on this story, I had posted a blog on Facebook, the link to which is submitted below. I invite you to peruse the same. <br />I am a military enthusiast, and belong to a family which has given many soldiers to the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force.<br />I feel happy that thank to the Internet we are able to share experiences.<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150265163268692Puneet Mathurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319740585635739616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-11117644749765431552011-08-17T05:34:24.892+05:002011-08-17T05:34:24.892+05:00I understand that this was a war time incident, bu...I understand that this was a war time incident, but attacking a civilian aircraft in it's own sovereign territory is nothing short of a war crime for whatever rhyme or reason. The whole incident is appalling and deeply regretful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-2079688116195599212011-08-14T09:20:56.501+05:002011-08-14T09:20:56.501+05:00I was interested in the incident from today's ...I was interested in the incident from today's report in thehindu daily.<br />It was unfortunate this incident happened. All this stemmed up from the sibling quarrel which led to the partition of the Joint family. Why do not we even consider burying the past and living peacefully and helping each other rather than playing pawns to others?Suresh Pillaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09031916219286013585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-46796832826051134552011-08-12T11:13:56.747+05:002011-08-12T11:13:56.747+05:00"I believe there are rules of engagement duri..."I believe there are rules of engagement during war and peace. I think the best decision by the Sector Commander Badin would have been to give orders to sheperd (forced) the aircraft to land on one of the bases in Pakistan, which would have raised the morale of our Armed Forces sky high and the Indians morale would have plummeted specially that certain VIP's were on board. Capturing of the Indian VIP's would have been a big trophy, plus 8 innocent lives would have been saved, if the right decision at the right time had been taken." -- Even I thought of the same thing, could not we have saved lives was shooting down the only option...Also a question being a civilian if the Pilot knew that it had VT markings Civil aircraft markings and indicating to surrender and in Indian Territory, even though ordered by the Sector Commander and the OC Operations could he have not fired or would it have resulted in court martial ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-58882762104139163092011-08-11T19:45:05.948+05:002011-08-11T19:45:05.948+05:00both of them rose above all by their courageous a...both of them rose above all by their courageous acts in thei life.no else of any side are good to comment on their act or the past. Be good spirits.both of them rose above all by their courageous acts in thei life.no else of any side are good to comment on their act or the past. Be good spirits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-84091102777592133692011-08-11T18:53:02.764+05:002011-08-11T18:53:02.764+05:00We have fought three wars...lost so many lives on ...We have fought three wars...lost so many lives on both side of the border...Stories of Courage and Self Sacrifice for their individual countries and their families who eventually probably suffered the most silently. And yet we still do not not realize that War at the end is nobody's Victory...Lets try and be friends and at Peace and do things together, after all probably we all have a common History and an Ind entity fought the Independence together...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-79962703490195863292011-08-11T16:57:25.798+05:002011-08-11T16:57:25.798+05:00From: Farida Singh
10 August 2011 09:49
Subject: R...From: Farida Singh<br />10 August 2011 09:49<br />Subject: Re: Condolence<br />To: Qais Hussain <br /><br />Dear Mr. Hussain,<br /> <br />Firstly, thank you for your condolences on the passing away of my brother Noshir.<br /> <br />I am somewhat overwhelmed at receiving this letter, even though I was expecting it as Jagan Pillarisetti had been in touch with me recently on this.<br /> <br />It took courage for you to write this. And for me, too, (I say this humbly) it takes the same to write back . But my father was Courage and Grace at their finest and I now speak on behalf of him, my extraordinary, gracious mother (who survived my father by just 16 years), my late brother Noshir and my elder sister in Canada who is unfortunately legally blind.<br /> <br />Yes, this was the one incident which defined our lives henceforth. But in all the struggles that followed, we never, not for one moment, bore bitterness or hatred for the person who actually pulled the trigger and caused my father's death.The fact that this all happened in the confusion of a tragic war was never lost to us. We are all pawns in this terrible game of War and Peace.<br /> <br />A little more about my father. An ace pilot if ever there as one. A WWII veteran fighter pilot, a great leader of men, a willing team player, strong in body and spirit. This would have been just the view of an adoring daughter, had it not been reflected by all those fortunate enough to know him. Most of all was the generosity of spirit, and his intuitive understanding of the pain of others. Hence it is now easy for me to reach out my hand to receive your message. This incident is indeed a prime example of what damage strife and mindless battles can drive even good men to do.<br /> <br />Thank you again for your gesture. I know it was not an easy thing for you to do.<br /> <br />In closing, I would like to say that I have no idea as to how your email has made the front page in some prominent dailies here. (Jagan knows how publicity-shy I generally am). A friend told me about it and I then re-checked my inbox and opened your mail this morning, 4 days after you sent it.<br />However, I am glad that it is now public as it can do nothing but heal wounds, not just on a personal scale but in a much wider arena. And most of all, my father would have liked that it goes towards bringing a spark of forgiveness between our two peoples, who after all were one.<br /> <br />Warm regards,<br /> <br />FaridaKaiserhttp://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/2011/04/gujarat-beechcraft-incident-1965-war.html#comment-formnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-81702737769338869622011-08-11T13:37:48.815+05:002011-08-11T13:37:48.815+05:00Nearly half-a-century after shooting down an India...Nearly half-a-century after shooting down an Indian civil aircraft under orders during the 1965 war with India, a Pakistan Air Force pilot has sent a condolence message to the daughter of the pilot of the aircraft he downed. <br /><br />Qais Hussain, a flying officer during the 1965 war, made this gesture via email, expressing his condolences. The email is addressed to Farida Singh, daughter of the IAF pilot Jahangir "Jangoo" Engineer, one of the famous Engineer brothers in the force. <br /><br />The email, with the subject line "Condolence", dated Friday, Aug 5, 2011, is copied to Naushad Patel and Jagan Pillarisetti, the Indian contacts who helped Hussain reach out to the bereaved family. Hussain forwarded the email to a group email for Pakistan Air Force colleagues, saying, "Most of you would recall that I had shot down an Indian civil aircraft after being scrambled from Mauripur in 1965 War." <br /><br />Referring to an April 2011 article by Air Cdre Kaiser Tufail ("The Gujarat Beechcraft Incident - 1965 War", which gives details of the incident, he says it was Naveed Riaz, the Lahore-based businessman and aviation enthusiast, who helped him get in touch with the Indian contacts through whom he then managed to reach Jahangir Engineer's daughter. <br /><br />Hussain wrote to Farida Singh, "The incident happened 46 years back but it is as fresh in my mind as if it had happened yesterday. The aircraft flown by your father had drifted off course by many a mile and in his search for the destination, he had been going up and down in the border area of Rann of Katchh for quite some time and it made our radar controllers uncomfortable. <br /><br />"I happened to be strapped up in my aircraft along with another pilot (my leader) in his, on two minutes take-off alert. We were scrambled but I had to take off alone, and with help from my radar controller, intercepted your father's aircraft which was considered to be on a recce mission to open a new war front. I caught sight of him at 3000' and made a pass so close that I could read his markings and the number of the aircraft. Your father spotted my presence immediately and he started climbing and waggling his wings seeking mercy. <br /><br />"Instead of firing at him at first sight, I relayed to my controller that I had intercepted an eight-seat transport aircraft (guessing by the four side windows) and wanted further instructions to deal with it. At the same time, I was hoping that I would be called back without firing a shot. There was a lapse of 3 to 4 long minutes before I was given clear orders to shoot the aircraft. <br /><br />"After the shooting, I had a sense of achievement and satisfaction that I had completed my mission and destroyed any recce data that might have been collected to open a new war front. I landed back at Mauripur, Karachi, with my fuel tanks bone dry and was greeted by my seniors and other squadron colleagues. Later that evening, All India Radio announced the names of the occupants who had lost their lives in that aircraft... <br /><br />"Mrs Singh, I have chosen to go into this detail to tell you that it all happened in the line of duty and it was not governed by the concept that 'everything is fair in love and war', the way it has been portrayed by the Indian media due to lack of information. I did not play foul and went by the rules of business but the unfortunate loss of precious lives, no matter how it happens, hurts each human and I am no exception. I feel sorry for you, your family and the other seven families who lost their dearest ones. <br /><br />"I hope and pray that you and your family stay well <br /><br />"My best regards... <br /><br />"Qais"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-18203273283625083782011-08-10T10:38:41.934+05:002011-08-10T10:38:41.934+05:00Well concluded. There is a difference in the time ...Well concluded. There is a difference in the time of peace and time of war! But, seriously, i doubt the PAF's capability of doing any such thing again (if and only if required) due to many factors one of which is, the shortcomings of the latest & more advanced equipment! We never looked / tried to look beyond American market (& now Chinese only). Plus, we never tried to gain the technology! I am astonished that even in 50's & 60's, IAF was operating American aircrafts when only Pak was an ally of the US not India. But these things are not new for us now!Syed Hasan Abbasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-59084227079499888622011-08-10T10:38:05.124+05:002011-08-10T10:38:05.124+05:00gr8gr8Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-64870555162182667542011-08-09T15:32:11.107+05:002011-08-09T15:32:11.107+05:00We Should Not Forget That Both Sides Where At War ...We Should Not Forget That Both Sides Where At War In 1965 September.F-86 Was Inside Indian Airspace Because Of This War.<br /><br />As For P.N.S Atlantic It Was Peace Time Than Why Was It Shot Down,Even If It Had Gone Across The Boarders By Mistake.Aviatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-75017088101572277132011-05-16T18:33:45.818+05:002011-05-16T18:33:45.818+05:00umm.. there was a war going on remember?umm.. there was a war going on remember?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-218267100837900801.post-12666630488187847392011-05-14T19:26:22.659+05:002011-05-14T19:26:22.659+05:00The question is.. what was the F-86 doing inside I...The question is.. what was the F-86 doing inside Indian Airspace..?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com